Advani put personal gain above N-deal: Kapil Sibal

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Keywords: Trust Vote, UPA

How confident is the Government of Tuesday's vote? And what will happen thereafter? Karan Thapar explored these two issues with the Minister of Science and Technology, Kapil Sibal on CNN-IBN show Devil’s Advocate.

Karan Thapar: On Monday, Parliament will start debating the Vote of Confidence tabled by the Prime Minister. Will the Government win or lose?

Kapil Sibal: I think that we are here to win.

Karan Thapar: How confident are you?

Kapil Sibal: I'm very confident because despite all the politics that is going on, I think, in the hearts of all the Members of the Parliament, people know that the Indo-US nuclear deal is good for India.

Karan Thapar: Will you win on the basis of having at least 272 members on your side or because of critical abstentions on the other side?

Kapil Sibal: Well, I don't know that and I can't possibly say how it will happen, but we will win the Vote of Confidence.

Karan Thapar: Let's talk about how the voting might go. How confident are you that every single Congress MP in the Lok Sabha will vote for the Government?

Kapil Sibal: Well, you can never tell about individuals but I do believe that 99 per cent of them will.

Karan Thapar: But you accept that two or three may not vote?

Kapil Sibal: Well, it's possible because I read some newspaper statements by certain Members of Parliament — there was a statement by one MP in Haryana and then there were some others. But I do believe that ultimately they might also turn around.

Karan Thapar: How many of the Samajwadi Party's (SP) 39 MP's do you think will be on your side?

Kapil Sibal: Well, that is not some thing that I have assured the party of. It's the SP that has assured that the numbers that they have promised will be delivered. How they will be delivered, only they know.

Karan Thapar: Newspapers are saying that the sizes of rebellion in the SP ranks could be anything from four or five on the lower side to perhaps 16 on the higher side. Has your party accounted for that into your consideration?

Kapil Sibal: All that has been considered and we do believe Amar Singhji when he says that despite everything he will deliver the numbers that he has promised.

Karan Thapar: Do you really believe it or are you keeping you finger crossed that he will?

Kapil Sibal: No, I do believe it.

Karan Thapar: What about Shibu Soren and the JMM? Are you confident that they will vote with you?

Kapil Sibal: Yes, I'm absolutely confident. Remember, Shibu was part of the UPA and there is no reason for him not to vote. Even though frantic efforts are being made to offer him chief ministership in Jharkhand by the BJP, we know very well that Shibu Soren will come back to us.

Karan Thapar: But he's withheld saying so in public. He's clearly bargaining for positions, ministership himself and Cabinet ministerships. How much can you concede?

Kapil Sibal: There is no question of conceding anything. I think the fact of the matter is that Shibu Soren has had a chequered recent past — he was convicted and then he was acquitted. And a couple of times he's been in and out of the ministry. So in these circumstances, while he's been acquitted, he can well be inducted but that is really not an issue. At the moment, I do really believe that Shibu Soren will support the Government.

Karan Thapar: Despite his silence he will support the Government?

Kapil Sibal: Absolutely.

Karan Thapar: What about smaller parties like the JDS and the RLD? Are they giving you any silent support?

Kapil Sibal: You must remember that the JDS is ideologically against BJP. The JDS will again come back to us. Deve Gowda is probably meeting some of the top leaders of Congress.

Karan Thapar: He's meeting with the Prime Minister on Saturday?

Kapil Sibal: Yes, I believe he is. So I think that is not a problem.

Karan Thapar: Is the fact that he's meeting with the PM a sign that gives you assurance and confidence that he will support you?

Kapil Sibal: Absolutely. I have no doubts that all these people, who are termed as fence sitters, will be part of the Congress fold.

Karan Thapar: In addition to being a fence sitter, Ajit Singh is keeping his cards very close to his chest. Clearly he's bargaining. Can you offer him something more that just changing the name of Lucknow airport?

Kapil Sibal: It's not the question of bargaining as far as Ajit Singh is concerned. You look at Uttar Pradesh and look at where RLD stands in UP. RLD can't possibly go with BJP, it's not a force in UP.

Karan Thapar: So your saying the logic of politics pushes him to your side?

Kapil Sibal: Absolutely.

Karan Thapar: What about the National Conference and the fact that Omar Abdullah as yet hasn't revealed his hand?

Kapil Sibal: Well, again with the National Conference, the logic of politics is on our side. I don't think the National Conference will be seen voting for the BJP or the NDA.

Karan Thapar: So you have hopes that all these small parties and the JMM will actually end up on your side despite their presence of silence or prevarication?

Kapil Sibal: Absolutely.

Karan Thapar: A B Bardhan, the General Secretary of the Communist Party of India and until very recently one of your staunchest allies, has said the Government is offering him Rs 25 crore?

Kapil Sibal: I want to make it clear on behalf of the Government that. this Government is not involved in any such unsavoury financial transactions.

Karan Thapar: You mean money is not changing hands?

Kapil Sibal: No way will this Government compromise on that.

Karan Thapar: What about the fact that individuals such as Munawar Hasan that they have been approached and offered Rs 25 crore?

Kapil Sibal: He did not mention the Government.

Karan Thapar: He may be acting through intermediaries?

Kapil Sibal: As I told you I'm now speaking on behalf of the Government. This Government, this PM, Mrs Gandhi do not believe in these things.

Karan Thapar: So what happened in '93, won't happen now?

Kapil Sibal: And remember that Munawar Hasan is not a person who should be believed merely because he make that statement. He may have made that statement at the insistence of the leader of a particular party trying to get Munawar Hasan on his side.

Karan Thapar: So what your saying is to me is that what happened with JMM in 1993 simply won't happen again in 2008?

Kapil Sibal: There is no question of it. I can assure the people of India.