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Devil's Advocate: Uma Bharti
Published on Sun, Feb 11, 2007 at 20:29, Updated at Wed, Jun 20, 2007 in Nation section
Tags: Devils Advocate, Karan Thapar , Karan Thapar
REBEL WITHOUT A PAUSE: Uma Bharti says credibility cannot be counted by votes.
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Karan Thapar: Hello and welcome to Devil’s Advocate. As India prepares for a spate of state elections, how relevant is Uma Bharti and her Bharatiya Janshakti Party? That’s the question I shall ask today in an exclusive interview to the lady herself.
Ms Bharti, one year after you broke with the BJP, your own party, the Bharatiya Janshakti Party, has failed to take off and you yourself have lost your credibility. Have you ceased to be relevant?
Uma Bhrati: I think there are two questions in one question. One is the relevance of the party and second is the credibility of the party and the person - me.
Uma Bharti: No, no. What I am saying is that the credibility is always dependent on ideology, on the character of the person -- in which I can say that I am more credible than anybody in Indian politics right now.
Karan Thapar: You mean you are the most credible politician in India today?
Uma Bharti: Yes.
Karan Thapar: You mean that?
Uma Bharti: Yes.
Karan Thapar: That’s not an exaggeration?
Uma Bharti: No.
Karan Thapar: All right. Let’s come to the facts. Last year, in your won home state Madhya Pradesh, you contested three by-elections. You lost all three. In Vidisha, you came third with just 22 per cent of the votes. In Pandhana, you came third with 13 per cent of the votes. And you say you are the most credible politician in India!
Uma Bharti: Yes, because credibility cannot be counted by votes. It can (only) be counted by ideology. If you compromise on ideology, then you lose your credibility.
Karan Thapar: But if your ideology is being rejected, how does it matter?
Uma Bharti: Karan, let it be my show also. Let me say something. What I am saying is that you see BJP's record and you see Congress’ record. When the BJP was in the ruling, could the Congress win any by-election? And when the Congress was in ruling, when Digvijay Singh was ruling for 10 years in Madhya Pradesh, the BJP lost all the by-elections.
Karan Thapar: No doubt. But let’s stick to your own record rather than BJP record or Congress record. May I come back to Vidisha to start with? In Vidisha, not only did you lose, but the BJP had 1,20,000 votes more than you, Congress had 36,000 more than you. In Pandhana, BJP's vote-share was three-and-a-half times greater than yours, the Congress vote-share was two-and-a-half times greater than yours. Your party is irrelevant. It has no credibility with voters in your own state.
Uma Bharti: Now again, I shall separate the issues. Relevance is a different thing, credibility is a different thing. The BJP is a more than 50-year-old party. They have lost most of their deposits in Uttar Pradesh in the recent by-elections. And about the credibility, again I will say, tell me which party has got the credibility? The Congress used to use Mahatma Gandhi's name…
Karan Thapar: But you are going to the Congress. Stick to Bharatiya Janshakti Party, that’s your party.
Uma Bharti: No, no. What I am saying is that credibility is (counted) with ideology. And I am saying that in eight months, if I’ve come even fourth or fifth in a state like Madhya Pradesh, where there is a no third party except the BJP and Congress, for that you must appreciate me.
Karan Thapar: Ms Uma Bharti, I will appreciate you. The problem is that even in your own constituency Malhara, you failed and you failed badly. Compared to December 2003, when you stood as a BJP candidate, this time around, when your candidate Rita Yadav stood, the amount of vote had fallen by 40 per cent and your share of vote had fallen by 60 per cent. If you can’t retain your own constituency in your won home state, what hope have you got?
Uma Bharti: (For) Bada Malhara constituency, the BJP couldn’t find a candidate from BJP, you know?
Karan Thapar: But their candidate won and your candidate lost and you were the polling agent yourself, which is even worse.
Uma Bharti: Just a minute. Because you keep on saying, I have no time to say anything. So, the programme should be like that that the other person should be allowed to speak. What I want to say is that in Bada Malhara constituency, the BJP couldn’t find anybody in their own party. And they had to field a candidate, who is from Communist background. So, even if they won there, they did not win. They had no confidence to win…
Karan Thapar: Can I interrupt? Clearly, if they won, it suggests that people of your constituency prefer a BJP candidate, who, as you say a Communist, rather than your own chosen candidate. They have rejected your nominee in favour of a BJP nominee, that’s what count.
Uma Bharti: No, they didn’t…
Karan Thapar: They did and your candidate lost.
Uma Bharti: In Bada Malhara, in Vidisha actually elections did not take place in a democratic system. There was a total loot…
Karan Thapar: Now you are sounding like a bad loser.
Uma Bharti: No, I am not. I am not sounding like a bad loser because there is an election petition in the court. And the petition has been admitted. So when the court accepted (the petition), that means something is wrong with it.
Karan Thapar: Let me slightly change the subject and come back. Let me come back to what you said just a few weeks before those by-elections.
Uma Bharti: Karan, again, I have to say something.
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