Devil's Advocate: Yashwant Sinha on N-counter plan

COMING CLEAN: Sinha says BJP is more idealistic and courageous than most political parties.

      

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Keywords: Yashwant Sinha, Karan Thapar

Is there a chance that the BJP could accept the Indo-US nuclear deal? That’s one of the many issues that Karan Thapar explores with former external affairs minister Yashwant Sinha on Devil’s Advocate.

Karan Thapar: Is your party trying to find a way to accept the nuclear deal?

Yashwant Sinha: No, we are allowing anyone who wants to explain the advantages of the deal and tell us about it. But as we have understood this deal and the 123 Agreement, I don’t think there is any scope for change in our attitude.

Karan Thapar: You talk of people permitted to persuade you, are you under pressure from the Americans to shift your position and accept the deal?

Yashwant Sinha: It will be wrong to say that we are under pressure. But if American diplomats or former diplomats like Henry Kissinger want to meet BJP leaders and want to explain the deal, it will not be polite on our part to say no. So, we are meeting and listening to them.

Karan Thapar: You mean this is just politeness on your part?

Yashwant Sinha: It is giving them an opportunity that if they have something then we are prepared to listen.

Karan Thapar: Are they arm-twisting?

Yashwant Sinha: No, no there is no question of that. We are not in Government, what will they get out of arm-twisting us.

Karan Thapar: Do they have persuasive arguments?

Yashwant Sinha: I don’t know. I have heard about the meeting that the American Ambassador had with the leader of the Opposition, LK Advani and party President Rajnath Singh…

Karan Thapar: And he (ambassador) will be meeting you on Monday.

Yashwant Sinha: Yes, he will be meeting me on Monday. I will listen to him and maybe we will discuss it in some greater detail. We will see what their point of view is and we will explain what our point of view is.

Karan Thapar: Is there any leeway on your side?

Yashwant Sinha: There is nothing that I can see as a ‘give’ on our side as of now.

Karan Thapar: So, there is room to be persuaded.

Yashwant Sinha: You know, we have clearly said that there are elements in the 123 Agreement also which are not acceptable to us. So, it’s not merely the Hyde Act and the entire set of American legislation.

Karan Thapar: Let’s pullback and take a look at the BJP’s attitude to the 123 Agreement, the Hyde Act and the nuclear deal as a whole. The problem is that you are the authors of the relationship with the US, which is culminating in the nuclear deal. And yet today you have become the chief opponents of your own vision for the future. It’s a ridiculous position for the BJP to be in.

Yashwant Sinha: Let me take a little bit of your time and explain our point. And I hope you will bear with me on this. We are also the party, which when in Government went in for nuclear tests in 1998. And we declared that India was now a nuclear weapon state. We enunciated our nuclear doctrine while in power and this Government has followed that same nuclear doctrine.

You know what the nuclear doctrine is – no first use, non-use against non-nuclear weapons state and inflicting unacceptable damage on a country which attacks it with nuclear weapons. Now this is very important. Out of this flows the concept of the credible minimum deterrent. The credibility of our deterrent, therefore assumes supreme importance. And if that credibility is adversely affected by any arrangement then that is something, which is not acceptable to us. And when you say we are authors of a better relationship with the US, we are not denying it.

Karan Thapar: All of that is being recognised. But even Henry Kissinger last week said that there is no impact on the deterrent, so accept them and go ahead.

Yashwant Sinha: No, we can’t accept it because a ban on our nuclear test will affect the credibility of our deterrent. And it’s entirely wrong and even mischievous to suggest that because we advocated a better relationship with the US, this means that we sacrifice our national interests and accept the deal.

Karan Thapar: Can you deny that a large section, if not a majority of your middle class constituency is troubled by your initial hostility, perhaps even your belligerence to the deal. They want you to take a more accommodating stand.

Yashwant Sinha: No, no, not at all. Absolutely wrong.

Karan Thapar: You don’t believe the voters in your constituency want a more accommodating stand?

Yashwant Sinha: The voters in my constituency…forget about…

Karan Thapar: No, not your personal constituency, the party’s constituency.

Yashwant Sinha: No, the middle-class understands one simple fact that India should not become a subservient state to any other country.

Karan Thapar: Let me put it like this. The former national security advisor Brajesh Mishra has said and I quote, “I If were to get credible guarantees from the Government about the integrity of what we had left behind three-and-a-half years ago then I would say go forward with the deal.” Can the BJP adopt that approach?

Yashwant Sinha: That’s the approach we have adopted right from the beginning.

Karan Thapar: So, if you get a guarantee from the Government you can go ahead?

Yashwant Sinha: No, it’s not a question of getting a guarantee from the Government in the face of US legislation.

Karan Thapar: That is what Brajesh Mishra says.

Yashwant Sinha: Brajesh Mishra says it in the context of what? In the context of the 123 Agreement and the Hyde Act.

Karan Thapar: Quite right, I am saying in the same context too. If the Government says ‘Yashwant Sinha, LK Advani, Atal Bihari Vajpayee, we give you an assurance,’ which even Henry Kissinger repeated on this program last week as well that there is no adverse impact on the Indian nuclear terrain, then will you say, ‘yes we are assured’?

Yashwant Sinha: What kind of assurance? If their legislation flies in the face of such an assurance, will that assurance have any credibility?

Karan Thapar: But Brajesh Mishra thinks it good.

Yashwant Sinha: You have quoted one line by Brajesh Mishra. He has said it in the context of the Hyde Act and the 123 Agreement. And unless the Hyde Act is amended, 123 Agreement is changed, we will not be able to ensure this.