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Two decades later is the Narmada Bachao Andolan a failure or is than an unfair comment? That is the key issue Karan Thapar discussed on Devils Advocate with the movement’s principal leader Medha Patkar.

Karan Thapar: Twenty-three years after you got involved with the Sardar Sarovar Dam, the dam has reached a height of a 121 metres and it is now just a couple of years away from completion. So can you accept that you have failed to stop the dam?

Medha Patkar: One doesn’t know when the dam will be completed but recently Ministry of Water Resources has commented that it may go beyond the Five Year Plan. However, it is clear that after 122 meters, the height that was permitted illegally, submerging the people and was against Supreme Court judgments….

Karan Thapar: One thing is certain that the dam will be completed, whether it takes one year or two years or more. You and I know that. It is only 17 meters from its full desired height. You haven’t stopped it and you know you will never be successful in stopping it.

Medha Patkar: Only 17 metres and if that happens, then two and a half lakh people in the submergence area residing in the villages and townships would only be drowned and not done justice.

Karan Thapar: That happens with development. What about the people of Gujarat, whose depend on irrigation for agriculture. One million, seven hundred and ninety-two thousand hectares in Gujarat alone, not to mention the other states that are dependent or the 5 million farmers who are dependent. When you tried to stop the dam, you did not think of them?

Medha Patkar: Let me answer that question. The Gujarat people know better than you and me that the water has not reached Kutch despite the fact that it was possible even at the height of 110 metres.

Karan Thapar: Because of the delays you imposed…

Medha Patkar: No, not at all. Even after the dam reached the height of 110 meters, the waters were diverted to Gandhinagar and the Comptroller and Auditor General of India has even commented on this. The benefits did not materialise even at the height of 110 metres. Only 10 per cent of the expected benefits have come true.

Karan Thapar: I accept that the Gujarat government has perhaps done wrong and injustice that they have diverted waters. But I am no talking about that. I am talking about the fact that you tried to stop development. 5-million farmers depend on irrigation water. You forgot that their agriculture is drought prone and needs water.

Medha Patkar: Five million is just their figure. Even at the present height, whatever numbers they propose and project has not come true. Only 10 per cent of the expected benefits have come true. This is the analysis of the researchers within Gujarat. And the opposition came first from the ministry of environment much before we began to protest.

Karan Thapar: But look at the position you put yourself in. You began as someone who was fighting for victims of development and you ended as someone who is opposing development to a full stop.

Medha Patkar: Isn’t it logical and rational?

Karan Thapar: To oppose development? Is that logical and rational?

Medha Patkar: It is not opposing development. Development is a change, which is desirable, which comes through after you put together the natural and human resources.

Karan Thapar: What is the alternative, but irrigation for drought prone farmers in Gujarat? You are stopping development.