Reading between the lines with Amitav Ghosh

WRITER'S SPACE: Ghosh has been winning awards since his first book The Circle of Reason was published in 1986.

          

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Author Amitav Ghosh has been winning awards since his first book The Circle of Reason was published in 1986.

His credentials are top drawer, the ex- Stephanian and Oxford alumnus has also taught Comparative Literature at universities in India and the US.

A one-time journalist, Ghosh writes essays and fiction as well as perhaps what he is most famous for, historical fiction.

The 52-year-old is back on the literary map this year with his book Sea Of Poppies, the first book in it's ambitious abyss trilogy, set in the historical period leading up to the opium wars.

Sea of Poppies deals with slave trade, forced opium cultivation and colonial attitudes with language ranging from nautical jargon to even Bhojpuri.

Amrita Tripathi: Tell us a little about this book, this is the first time you are doing a trilogy as well.

Amitav Ghosh:It's a story of a group of people who are on a ship in the 19th century and it really tracks the paths by which they find themselves on this ship as with any ship in those days. There are people of many different kinds, of origin and places. The captain and the officers of the ship are English and American, then there are some convicts and some siladars or armed guards, then there are the migrant labourers or the girmitias as they are known, who are going to Mauritius to work.

Amrita Tripathi: Does the slave ship, the Ibis, play a key role throughout the book, and throughout the trilogy as well?

Amitav Ghosh: I think it will certainly play some part in the rest of the trilogy but it doesn't matter if it does or not. One of the most wonderful things that happened historically with Indian indentured labours as they went to other countries abroad was that when they were in the ship they began to think of themselves as jahaz bhais (ship brothers). So once they would settle in Mauritius or wherever, that relationship between them continued as they continued to think of themselves as jahaz bhais (ship brothers). So if someone had come over on the Ibis, his children would also think of that man's children as their jahaz bhais (ship brothers). So it became a family, not a natural family, but as it was a family of accidents. In a way I found that concept to be very beautiful when I first came across it, so that was in a way the inspiration of the book.

Amrita Tripathi: A lot of research has gone into this book, as there is nautical jargon being used on the ship and also Bhojpuri, so how did all the research come together?

Amitav Ghosh: Well, there was a different kinds of research involved in the book, there was research carried out in the library which was very interesting because when I was in Mauritius where they have a very beautiful archive called the Mahatma Gandhi Institute where they preserve all the papers and things that went with the earliest migrants, so it's very moving to see all the care and love that has gone into the preservation of those papers, and history and those documents. However on our side we preserve nothing of the people that left, the old migrant depot has gone, there is no commemoration of the places from where they embarked in old Calcutta which I think is such a pity because if they commemorate these places so many people would come to visit it. For the Diaspora of all the people who are in Mauritius or wherever, the idea of being from Calcutta is a very powerful idea, because they all left from Calcutta. If you think of what it meant for these people who were poor peasants from the Bhojpur region, what it meant for them to go on a ship and cross the paani (waters) to go to a place they know nothing about. It was a very brave act as these people were extremely courageous people. So that was one very interesting part of the research, than there was a research into ships and especially into sailing ships. And one of the most interesting parts was just learning how to sail.

Amrita Tripathi: So you learnt to sail, that must have been interesting?

Amitav Ghosh: Yes, it was a lot of fun and very exciting.

Amrita Tripathi: Are you going to get yourself a boat, a ship, a yacht anything of that sort or is it just going to be a hobby?

Amitav Ghosh: I enjoyed myself so much that if I could, I certainly would.

Amrita Tripathi: And is it opium that we are talking about because of the East India Company?

Amitav Ghosh:That is something that I've come upon by accident and which has really surprised me because yes, it is the case from 1780s onwards under the East India Company there was a huge increase in poppy planting and opium production in India. It was really the principles of the trade mechanism and a lot of wealth was drained out of India. That entire history is something that we in India have really forgotten, that we in India pay no attention to, but opium was the mainstay of the British economy in India. It was opium that financed the British Raj essentially.

Amrita Tripathi: So would you say it's another form of exploitation that we have not registered and processed or is it a willful ignorance on the part of Indian historians may be?

Amitav Ghosh: I think there is some degree of shame in it, as the very word opium makes people uneasy doesn't it? And yet to this day we are the largest producers of legitimate opium in the world. In the same Ghazipur factory, I mean naturally some place has to produce legitimate opium, as it's a medicine, so we still continue to do that. But I would say we have basically chosen to forget this aspect of our past.

Amrita Tripathi: What is your reaction to the review by The Guardian which compares you to Tolstoy, Dickens and Alexander Dumas all in the same sentence?

Amitav Ghosh: I'm profoundly flattered.

Amrita Tripathi: How seriously would you take reviews or critical acclaims?

Amitav Ghosh: I do my best not to read them, but sometimes if someone does sends me excerpts, or a review saying that you have got to read this, then I read it. Otherwise I don’t try to read them because once you start paying attention to that kind of thing, it really gets into your head and that is not what I should be thinking about.

Amrita Tripathi: You have been winning awards ever since your first book in 1986 and you have won the Padma Shri as well, so how important do you think awards are for your recognition?

Amitav Ghosh: Awards are very important when you are young and at the start of you're career, they can really help to launch your career and they can bring your books a lot of visibility, so all those things are really wonderful about awards. I think as you get older they matter less and less but I must say of all the awards I have got the one that I really cared a lot about was the Padma Shri because it became such a big event for my entire family in Calcutta, as their neighbours were coming and distributing sweets. And I just thought it was so wonderful, I mean I had no sense that it was such an event. Then when I actually went to receive the Padma Shri that itself was such an amazing occasion as there were people who really wanted to see an entire diversity of India. There were people from the northeast in their traditional costume; it was seeing the pageant of India right there. And there was something very moving about that.

Amrita Tripathi: Were you surprised at the reaction of the media when you turned down the nomination at the commonwealth for The Glass Palace?

Amitav Ghosh: I was surprised that it got as much attention as it did because the commonwealth is not very big in my consciousness, but it goes to show that those issues are still very much alive. I think commonwealth games are fine, commonwealth secretariat is fine, if it wants to be a political body, it's fine, I don't have any problems with that. But my objection is that when it starts intervening in culture, it's a real issue because why should it intervene in culture? What would we say to a nato prize for literature? What is the point of that? And especially when it's structured in such a way that it's explicitly promoting the English language at the expense of others. I mean one of the great lessons we learn from being in contemporary India is to learn the protocols of a multi-dimensional, multi- cultural, multi-lingual society. It's like in India if someone were to say that we would push one language at the expense of all others.

Amrita Tripathi: I found on your website this chrestomathy for this new book, could you explain to us what that is all about?

Amitav Ghosh: I'm a Stephanian and when I was in St Stephens one of the things we really loved were puns, there was this whole sort of tradition of bad puns, I would say we had a very odd relationship with language perhaps because for us it wasn't really a first language. I think that carried on into this book and while I was writing it one of the really fun parts of it was just writing about the words but I was doing it for my own pleasure. And then I happened to show it to one of my editors and she was really excited, in fact in America they are actually going to include in the book. It's really a series of notes on words but it's written in the voice of one of the characters in the book.

Amrita Tripathi: Speaking about the language that you are using for example the nautical and the sailor language as well, do you think it will be difficult for the readers to get? Or did u include it in that without too many explanations as you can understand it in context.

Amitav Ghosh: I think most of it is understandable in context but say for example I use a phrase from the nautical language, now if I say it to you in English would you understand what I said? No, of course you wouldn’t, now if I say it in Bajao Tirkat It’s the same, as nobody today knows what it is.

Amrita Tripathi: I assume u do?

Amitav Ghosh: Yes, I do. So how does it matter? No, in every good novel there is as a good friend of mine says, a certain element of white noise. I mean it’s the background noise, the noise that we’re hearing now; you don’t have to understand every little bit of it. It’s not necessary, perfect understanding doesn’t exist.

Amrita Tripathi: Alright you brought up Stephens, I want to ask you a while ago there was this whole tag of being one of the proponents of the St Stephens school of literature. Did you ever agree that there was such a sort of category of writing by Indians in English?

Amitav Ghosh: This I will say you know, that I consider myself extraordinarily fortunate. I mean when we were all in college, none of thought that he was anything special or he was anything special, we were just in college and you know but I realise now what an extraordinary group of people I was with. So many of my contemporaries have become extraordinary writers, some have gone to the villages and spent their lives in the villages. One of my contemporaries Mihir Shah has been one of the leaders of the Narmada Movement. So many have done different things and completely different things. I think in a sense when you are with a group of really outstanding people you make each other better.

Amrita Tripathi: You are of course still friends with some of your college friends?

Amitav Ghosh: Yes. Mihir who I was just telling you about, he runs a water management NGO in Devas. He remains a close friend. Ram Guha, the great historian, he was a close friend. Gautam Mukhopadhya who is the Indian Ambassador to Syria now, he was a close friend. Shashi Tharoor I knew well. Upamanyu Chatterjee I helped him find his first agent. Mukul Keshavan who was one of my closest friends and remains to this day. Yes, I mean I could go on.

Amrita Tripathi: You travelled a lot when you were young?

Amitav Ghosh: Yes, my father had a transferable job so I just went wherever he went. And for a while he was attached to the foreign ministries, we were in Dhaka and then we were in Colombo.

Amrita Tripathi: You think that also shaped not your world view but maybe your identity as a writer, even then maybe when you were younger as well?

Amitav Ghosh: I don’t think of myself as being just of one place, just of Delhi or just of Calcutta. Because I feel I saw so many places so it gives me a certain confidence I think in dealing with places which are not immediately adjacent to my experience if you like.

Amrita Tripathi: And now you are of course based in New York?

Amitav Ghosh: No, not really. I spend most of my time in India now. My wife is American and we’ve been living in New York for a long time. But I’ve always spent a lot of time in India and now I divide my time. I’m actually in India more than I am there. My family home is in Calcutta, I have a house in Goa so I go back and forth. What people don’t see I think is the incredible creativity in Goa. I mean just in my little village, a village surrounded my rice fields there are writers, there are artists, there are photographers, there are historians, it's quite an extra-ordinary community, a very intellectually and culturally rich community so it’s a lot of fun to be there.

Amrita Tripathi: Who are some of your favourite writers that you enjoy reading right now?

Amitav Ghosh: I have so many favourite writers, it’s really hard to make a small list but I think a better way to put that question is 'Who have you read recently?' I don’t know if you know the work of Amitabh Bagchi, I read his book I really liked it. I think this wonderful genre of the IIT novel in India is just terrific. I really enjoyed Chetan Bhagat’s first book. There is a young woman writer called Anjum Hassan who wrote a wonderful book about Shillong really liked it. And then more recently I’ve read Mukul Keshavan’s new book of essays and I think it’s just a marvellous collection, absolutely outstanding. I’ve always loved to read essays and I would put this right up there with the very finest essays.

Amrita Tripathi: I also want to ask you little bit about imperialism and this as a theme in your writing. Do you think it is actually a theme that comes across, you know colonialism and attitudes towards it.

Amitav Ghosh: If you are writing about 19th century India, imperialism is pretty inescapable. I mean it was there it was shaping the country I mean there is no way you can write about it without dealing in some way with that subject so I think I would say that easily is the nature of my interest.

Amrita Tripathi: I was reading this article you had written right after 9/11 about the occupation in Iraq and you are comparing it to the 1857 uprising in various ways. Do you think these are things that maybe historians and writers need to be addressing just to bring it out in the public as well.

Amitav Ghosh: Yes, absolutely and I must say hats off to Arundhati, she’s addressed them very powerfully and she intervened at a time when it was urgently necessary not that it made any difference but you know the age of imperialism isn’t over. It’s actually now starting all over again, it’s really starting in earnest. Just yesterday we saw the American army attacking the Pakistani army on the borders of Pakistan. I mean I think re-colonisation is a very real prospect for Pakistan you know. The age of imperialism is not only not over it’s knocking on our doors again. During this whole Iraq war, during this whole period of George W Bush’s presidency we suddenly saw imperial historians standing out there, literally saying we want empire back and I think it is important for us people who have our histories, people who have lived through our histories to stand up and say no, this is what your history actually did, what you’re thinking about your history is a myth. The reality is slavery, opium.

Amrita Tripathi: Then it is even more incumbent on say historians, people in the public sphere to voice these opinions?

Amitav Ghosh: It’s not to me to tell other people what they should do or not do but I certainly felt that these are issues that I had to address.

Amrita Tripathi: And even like you’re saying you know, for example it may not really make a difference, is it making a difference even by provoking debate,do you think it’s enough of a contribution.

Amitav Ghosh:No it’s a very unfortunate thing but we Indians today as writers as intellectuals we do have a very large presence in the world but in this debate we were able to do nothing at all, we were completely unaffected.

Amrita Tripathi: We leave it at that but I want to ask you one last thing about your website, do u update it yourself?

Amitav Ghosh: Yes, I have someone working on it and I answer the messages myself.

Amrita Tripathi: Just the blog is missing. So Are you planning to blog?

Amitav Ghosh: You know I thought about doing a blog and then I thought of constantly having to update it and then I thought I’ll be thinking about this all day long so I thought no.